Search Engine Optimization Strategies & Trends for 2022 (and Beyond)

Hello, everyone. Welcome to this episode of Ecoffee with Experts. I’m your host, Matt Fraser. And today on the show I have with me, James Walters. James is the President of Click and Create, a Digital Marketing agency located in Houston, Texas, specializing in SEO strategies, social media marketing, graphic design, and web design. James has an innate understanding of a company’s target audience, which helps him successfully achieve client goals, actions, and unique messaging. He is recognized for creating exceptional graphic and web design and ensuring the right message is targeted to the correct audience. When James isn’t wearing his marketing hat, he enjoys goofing around with his two boys, drinking gourmet coffee, fantasy football, water activities, cooking, golf, sushi, and weekend getaways with his wife. James, thank you so much for being on the show.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Yeah, it’s a pleasure to have you here. So we were talking earlier about the future of SEO and some SEO strategies and trends for 2022 and beyond. What do you think are the top three SEO trends you predict will have the biggest impact on search results in the remainder of 2022?

Yeah, that’s always tough. And so the remainder of this year, and I have been saying this for a long time, I think your core values of SEO have always been the same. Creating content. Links are really important because it’s a good indicator and signal to Google that the big powerful sites ranking and linking to you mean it’s a good referral. Your content, people are engaged in your content or sharing your content. And having a backlink is the core of SEO, and I think it is still super vital. Those are probably your important pieces. Of course, there are a million other factors, so trying to determine the most important factor. But if you always go back to your core principles, you’ll be okay. So, you said three factors for 2022?

Well, trends, SEO trends, I guess. For instance, there’s a trend in Artificial Intelligence for content and algorithm is trending. What impact do you think that will have on SEO in the remainder of 2022 or beyond? Do you think AI will play a more important role in Google’s algorithm and how they rank content?

Yeah, I think AI it’s here, and it’s not going to go away. It will affect all parts of life, not just Google search or search. But it’s going to just creep in more and more and more. Now, I believe that the AI part isn’t that big of a factor. But I think we need to keep our finger on the pulse. Google did a recent release, and they talked about how the search will change; that’s a cool thing where you could combo up your criteria, like a photo with words. So you could go one of the examples today, say you’re looking for a nut-free, dark chocolate bar or something like that. You go to the grocery store, and they’ve got hundreds of chocolate bars. So you sit there and read them all, but you can take your phone and show it, and it would identify the ones with nuts. And they had a lot of cool things coming. They have a lot of great ideas. But when you think about it, the way you’re searching will change, but the fundamentals of search are still there. The way you’re searching, it’s just working on the data keeping the best answer back.

So what do you think, for instance, it used to be all about, like, let’s go back to the day of keyword stuffing and the title tag and H1s and H2s and H3s and keyword stuffing in your paragraphs and so on. I mean, Google has evolved. It’s more about structured data and entities and things like that. For Google to identify those things, do you think it’s going to be more and more important for you to build great content and optimize it from a technical perspective to rank in the search results? Do you think that’s just going to continue to grow and grow?

You have to call it your foundation, your structure, your site has to be built properly. Because depending on how much you do about SEO, Google doesn’t index all your content. It looks at the indicators and goes, Okay, this piece of content about this, right? Is there an index it just takes your keywords as a signal, and you’ve given it? We find title tags, organize your content, and optimize it properly; it’s not rocket science, just making common sense. Man, it goes a long, long way, long way. We’ve had tremendous increases in search rankings by just sitting with a client and going into their site, optimizing it, and redoing title tags are important. Just making sure they’re using the right keywords on the pages is basic stuff.

Yeah. It’s interesting. Tell me about that, though, like the structure of the site? You talked about two things: Google doesn’t crawl your whole site; if your e-commerce website with 10,000 products is going to be pretty damn hard. I don’t know how Amazon gets all their stuff indexed; it’s pretty interesting. They’re going after categories, not single pages, but it’d be ideal to have all those pages in Google’s index. What have you seen that have been more effective in structuring websites that have resulted in higher SEO rankings?

Well, just to make that clear, I’m saying that you have all this content on the page; it’s not indexing that entire piece of content. It’s indexing a page, but it’s using some signals identifying what that page is to be indexed for. When you have a larger site and sit down, it’s hard sometimes. People come to us, and they might have 60 pages of content. And everything’s a mess. And ultimately, it’s your job as a website owner, SEO person, or marketing person to paint the picture for Google. So when they crawl your site, they understand what your site’s about. If it’s all a mess, messy, and there’s no structure, it makes our job much harder. So our job is to go into, you hear the word silos or…

Yeah, that’s always trying to get at. Yeah. Information architecture.

You have, in general, categories of content, right? So, an example of that would be, you have a service, your main service page, like a service that you’re offering, we typically work with, we love services and professional service businesses. That’s hard, especially e-commerce to service. Say you have a couple of different services, right? When your service’s parent page, you’re not going to change that very much, right? Like that service will stay pretty concrete; they’re not going to change that much. But then you’re building a base for it, and you’re going into more niche or niche under that parent page, and you’re linking them all back to their link, and you’re telling Google, Oh, okay, and you can rank for these longer tail keyword phrases on these child pages, linking back to the parent page.

We’re talking about site architecture. Site architecture and information architecture. I think that will become even more important as things go on and if businesses don’t have that. I just looked at a website yesterday that is of a friend of mine, I won’t say who it is, but their websites are horrendous. It’s just bad in so many ways, in how it’s laid out, the design and look of the site, and so on. Very obviously, it is very important right now. Still, I think it will become even more important in the future of SEO understanding site architecture and information architecture to indicate to Google what your site is actually about.

Yeah, optimization and architecture are really important. I still haven’t seen design necessarily, as a great design overtake. I’ve seen some oily sites with great structure do very well to this day. You’re just blown away now. I want to make a point. I keep getting it as we talk. Anyways, go ahead.

No, we can edit it. You talked about design and how ugly websites are built and still do well in search. So as you know what that says about?

I ask versus you know what? I haven’t seen necessarily where just because your design is great. What I’m trying to get across is your architecture and optimization matter more. That makes a bigger impact even to this day. You have apples to apples. Right. The point we’re talking about is that there’s a tremendous amount of content. And you think about Google’s job, but I’m using Google as generic, like Coca-Cola for sort of, yeah. You index all this content in the context of growing rapidly. Their job is to do it, they have to deliver good answers to your questions, or you lose value. They have the best they can to index and deliver the right search results. So if I step back and think about that, I think, ultimately, not just creating content to put out there, but creating good content. And that’s let’s create content. We’re creating content. Let’s just spend the time to make it good. Having a good amount of content is good on your site, but don’t do it just to create content. So when they get engaged, because I think what’s going to matter or how it does is, how long can you stay on the site? How many people are linking to your page? I mean, stay on your page linking to it. How many people are sharing it? All that kind of stuff matters. It’s going to happen more and more as we go forward.

So it does, doesn’t it? This may sound like a stupid question, but what would you define as good content?

To me, good content means speaking to your audience; your audience is coming to you with the question in your house. And so, the best content is you have a lot of content; you answer the question, you do it visually, that’s just a big old block of content. You mix it up with infographics or photos so it makes sense and it’s easy to read. It’s easy to flow. But I think ultimately, it’s just speaking to your audience, like understanding who will go to that page and answer their questions.

Do you know what I think will be that you’ve touched on it, and I’ve talked to various marketing experts and agency owners. And one thing I think people will focus on or have to focus on more and more to stay relevant is knowing who their audience is. It’s amazing how many businesses do not take the time to invest. I worked for a worldwide car dealer brand that didn’t have assets for customer personas around the types of vehicles they sold. Because a different type of person buys an entry-level four-door sedan instead of an SUV. And I don’t know, what are your thoughts? For instance, I think that creating that trend, or something that’s going to happen, that people are going to start thinking more and more to create this good taunt content is creating brand personas and customer profiles.

I think you nailed it. I think that’s going to be huge going forward. Because longtail has been around for a long time, more niche searches help conversion rate. So that’s one of the first things we do when we sit down with clients; we want to create personas. Because you have to understand your audience, and it’s amazing, sometimes as a large company, that’s pretty large, 10 million, 20 million, 100 million might come to us. And you don’t know. They were blown over, and they’re like, God, Marketing 101. Because we’re doing a lot now, we’re creating content for each persona so that people can navigate through the site and get the content that makes sense to them.

And that’s how you create good content.

I am trying to think of an example right now. So we’re working with a company that does marketing. They’re an advertising company. One of the things we did was we went in and did a quick redesign to help increase optimization for a ton of traffic, but they wanted to increase their conversion rate. Conversion rates have gone up a lot. And now what we’re doing is we’re creating great landing pages for each bucket. Because they target different industries, it’s amazing, and we’re creating campaigns around each industry, and it gets to people better. Their conversion rates are so high because you’re speaking specifically to these people and are showing examples from their industry and language for them. They feel you’re talking to them, not to this broad audience. So I think that’s a big trend and I think that’s something people really should think about. So, understand who’s coming to your site if you have a mom, a stay-at-home mom with three kids, or another professional with no kids. Maybe a young professional, like they’re different in what they’re looking for and a lot of times how they view life is completely different. So you can speak to that to them, you can answer their pain points, you can talk to their pain points.

Hey, you mentioned something earlier that I just want to touch on, or it triggered a thought. In voice search, like you were talking about being in the grocery store, taking a picture, and trying to find that particular chocolate bar. What about the impact of Voice Search in regards to SEO? Do you have any thoughts on what kind of impact you think it will have on SEO in the future?

I think the way we search will change. And as far as Google goes, you haven’t seen much Voice Search. I don’t approach a project now knowing that voice search because I think, in my opinion, the words we’re voicing are similar to the words we’re typing. But I think what we’re going to start seeing, and you already are, is the different devices. So like, we have Alexa. Was it the Amazon?

Yes, Alexa. Yeah, Amazon Echo.

The devices, those things I think are going to be a little bit different. I think those things will start having an impact, where people will be able to work off of those. They’re going to have to be amazing. Or get search results out of that, like, what’s the best Indian restaurant or Mexican restaurant or whatever, you know, Italian restaurants near me? So I think those are things that we factor in. Because it needs to be voice added into Google. I don’t think it changes much versus typing it. Maybe other directories have to get added, too; how do these things get their listing? So those are things we have to think about.

I think that optimizing for search is going to become more and more important for voice search. But I think that will tie in whether Google produces a result on texts, a search engine, or a voice search. I think it’s just a matter of the AI reading the test results with their voice. You can disagree with me, but it’ll be important when content creators and website owners optimize their content even more. I could be full of crap but optimizing with entities in mind, and things like that, and using structured data. Because I don’t know how else Google can… I mean, they have a lot of smart engineers. I don’t know. What do you think? Am I full of crap, or do you agree?

Well, let’s say you’re going to do, let’s make sure we’re talking about the same thing. If you’re going to do a voice search and say we’re on our phone? How is your voice search different from what you’re typing in search? I’m asking, what would be different? What do you think? Do you think there’d be a difference?

I don’t know. It’s interesting. I have several Google Home minis in my house.

Now, those are going to be different. That’s different. That’s why I think that’s a big change.

That’s what I’m talking about, sorry. I need to define what we’re talking about, like Voice Search, with Google Home minis and things like that. I ask it questions, and sometimes it hits things on the head, and sometimes it’s like a moron. It’s like, I don’t know the answer to that, that’s like, how could you not know the answer to that? And I think that those devices are going to start showing up. I don’t know how much market penetration is right now. To make it simple, how much the market has and how many people own them. But I just see them exploding like smart homes. Integrating the power of search and Google’s search engine is going to go beyond just someone being on their phone or a desktop computer.

And we’re more focused now. I haven’t studied Alexa and understood how they’re getting their search results because it’s not quite a big factor at the moment, but we’ll pay attention to it. Google’s probably using Google’s results, but what’s Alexa using? So those are the questions I need to find out. Another thing to think about is if you have heard a lot about Web 3.0? I mean, with a call on web 3.0?

I, Gosh, darn it, I learn something about it. I don’t even know what it is the blockchain all this stuff. I’m so busy with everything I’m doing.

It’s hard to say. You have to stay present at the moment and know what works now. But then, like me, I’m trying to keep a pulse on the future. About Web 3.0, I’ve been listening to some stuff on it and Blockchain environments, but I think what my understanding of web 3.0 means is from 2.0 to 3.0. The big thing is that it has to make our lives easier. To make that jump. You have to, as a user, see a difference in how you use it. Everything has to become easier to be considered 3.0. And I think in 3.0, there will be more like AI and pieces than plugins whenever we get there. So just a quick example might be, how does this affect search? So let’s say I go to FIFA, the soccer deal, and I buy a ticket to a soccer event, a soccer game somewhere. Because I think it will come down to your digital wallets in the future because I think many people will know about you. But, if I book a trip now, you’ll probably need a place to stay. And so you might have to go out and search, or is that going to be our options will automatically restart being provided to, Simple things like that, because right now you can go out and search because booking.com doesn’t know that I have this trip. But if I have this token for this game in my digital wallet, now I can understand that, and it can provide me with the best solutions. Such things like that would be interesting to keep our eye on because now I’m no longer searching in a way, right?

You don’t have to search; the results will come to you, but they can come to you based on your actions. Like you said, that digital token of knowing that you have that because you have a digital wallet would be even easier.

Yeah, for example, maybe you have an American Express. And so servicing websites is probably a bad example, but just understand that you use American Express, and maybe they offer a discount for certain cards. Maybe because you’re an American Express holder, you get a discount, and you would already realize that and be able to recognize that show you or say you own a Tesla, and you have that token for that Tesla. The ad unlocks certain things for you online; it means that you don’t have to be noticeable.

It reminds me of where we are now with geofencing and geo-targeting on mobile devices. Restaurants can target people, and I don’t think people have even adopted that enough or maybe privacy laws don’t allow people to do it. I’ll tell you something that I did; that’s crazy. I’m sorry, I laughed. I was at a car dealership, and we targeted the other dealership on the other side of the city with an ad. Sorry. Are you sitting at this dealership? Come to our dealership, and we’ll give you $500. Hey, don’t you like the price they gave you? Don’t like the quote they gave you? Come to our dealership we’ll give you 500 bucks off. It was so good that we got picked, and they got so pissed off. They complained to the regional manager, and we had to stop. Just Hey, there were no rules against it. We didn’t do anything wrong. Being Mr. Techie, I knew what to do and did it. So it’s what you talked about; I just brought that up. We knew where people were and how to present a message to them.

So earlier in life, I sold cars at one point; that’s a grind.

Yeah, I did it. I worked in that industry for seven years, three of them as a salesperson. But anyway, it’s a grind. I went into it so I could learn how to sell. I needed to learn how to sell.

One thing that kind of leads here, what I saw, is that you always think of car salespeople as pushy and aggressive. The highest sellers at my dealership were the guys that knew the absolute most about the vehicles. People would talk to them, and they could just spew out all the data and get them to feel comfortable. They were the best sellers. The aggressive guys did well, but the guys that knew the most were the ones to reach the top. What does that mean? They’re providing the information.

And information is key even in search. So, I think I don’t know what role mobile devices will play in the future of SEO. But you talked about digital wallets and things like that. It will be fascinating to see some of those other things happen. Oh gosh, yeah. Watches and health. I don’t even know what question to ask you about that. But there’s got to be some way smartwatches are going to even; I’ll be frank, I thought that smartwatches were stupid when they came out. So why is Apple focusing on the Apple Watch? Watches! Nobody wears watches anymore. And now I want one. I don’t want an Apple Watch. I want a pixel watch. But anyway, that’s another story. But yeah, I wonder how that’s going to play out. I guess maybe being able to search for things on your phone or going back to that digital token of your wallet, your wallet on your phone, and I use my phone tap to pay for everything. I don’t use money or even my bank cards; I tap tap tap, tap tap. And they increased it. Where I’m from, the limit to tap is 200 bucks. It’s things that matter. How many things can I buy for less than 200 bucks? I just use my phone; it is just amazing. You know, from groceries to clothes, to whatever. I am certainly not going to buy a car with a tablet.

Whatever changes happen. However, people search for everything, and I think the fundamentals will always stay the same because our job is to make it so that the search engine can easily identify what our stuff is about. Like step one, you just have to optimize it, right? Like understanding how to optimize it. It’s not hard; you can do more technical things. But that’s always going to be a big one.

I don’t think that will ever change. What about the video? Do you think that video is going to become more? Let me look at it. Like the phone now, look at what you and I are doing with zoom here. Video. What phones are capable of the types of video they’re creating? Do you think that video content is going to become more? Like YouTube’s the second largest search engine in the world? Do you think Video Content Creation will become more and more critical, even regarding searching for companies and SEO?

You already see the impact of video. I think videos are super important not only for, say, SEO concentration but for conversion. Like how many people are they would rather watch a video versus read a whole bunch of content?

They would much rather, wouldn’t they?

I mean, we do a ton of YouTube ads. YouTube ads have been, they’re not great, in our opinion yet to get tons of just like instant action, but they’re super affordable. And it’s such a great brand awareness. Yeah, it’s been really, I don’t think you can tonight.

You took the words right out of my mouth. That’s one of the strategies I used at the car dealership. We created just 30-second awareness videos on YouTube. And one of my comparisons, I don’t know what Matt’s doing, but he’s everywhere all the time, is you’re creating video ads and display ads to retarget people and various other things. But anyway, yeah, I think video is going to be important and displaying videos on service pages or product pages. Do you think that businesses that embrace video are going to beat out or even are now in regards to conversions like it’s going to be that we’ll have a key that if people don’t start creating that content now, they’re going to fall behind?

I think it’s not bad. If a company starts to focus on adding video into their strategy, they will have a leg up probably because they’re already thinking about it and in that mindset. But I think that people adopting video will surely have a leg up. Because we already see how much impact video has. I mean, yes, it’s undeniable.

Are there any examples you can give, like in general terms, without revealing the company’s name?

Sure. This one came up yesterday in a meeting with clients. Finding people to work for you right now is kind of a big tick. I don’t know where all the people are going but before they wanted to work. I have talked to different companies and people about it. So, one of my companies is trying to find people, and they are getting people to their landing page for people to apply, but they weren’t getting what’s called a conversion. They weren’t getting people to sign up, but they hired a videographer to make this video, and they did a very good job of selling it and hitting the key points. Now their conversion rate has gone way up. They also use that video to market, not only on that page. It is a tool that allowed them to get a higher percentage for recruitment, just there alone. People were watching it and were sold. They did an excellent job. They laid out the concept; they made a case for it. But it is so different watching a video. They had testimonials from other people who worked there. It did great. So that’s a good example.

I think video in regards to search and not only in search, but the cost of videos has also become less expensive for businesses. Businesses will realize that investing in videos for search and the entire customer journey will become more important in moving forward.

You said something good there. The fees dropped. You don’t need a professional setup to do a decent video anymore. But, what we see too is, when you said in the customer journey, from one of our customers, if you know what you are selling and a lot of the customers we work with, is not that they see your search result and buy your product, multi-role interactions. So once the role touches, and it’s that journey. And so you have to search, and then you see your video on YouTube. Your video made sense. It’s good to think that it’s very hard now to do a one-touch.

Gosh, it’s multi-touch, isn’t it? For instance, you just triggered something. Attribution, how much more important will attribution becomes regarding marketing and even SEO search results? In regards to where someone found you. Somebody I was talking to mentioned that search isn’t just Google maps. People are searching on Quora. They’re searching on Amazon. They’re searching on Facebook. I don’t know if they will do it, but Apple is talking about coming out with their search engine. I don’t know why they did it, but Hrefs just came out with their search engine. Like..co has their search engine focused on privacy. But the point I’m trying to make is that there are different types of search methods, and it’s not just about Google.

We did quite a bit on Amazon, and from when we started working with Amazon has been eight to ten years. But earlier on, we could just run Campaigns as long as you had the product people were looking for, and you could just crush it. But now it takes a lot of work. It’s not easy to break even anymore on Amazon. Then you have to play the game, work on your Title tags and reviews, and this and that.

Do you think search engines like Google and Bing will continue to dominate the market in 2025?

I don’t see how Google loses its hold on a phone or a computer. I think it will lose some as more and more people get used to seeing all these different things and more comparisons, but I still think they will be dominant. As we discussed, it will be interesting to see these other devices come into play. When was it? A few years ago, Google had a Lawsuit from the Government for having a monopoly on search.

Yes. They do.

They do, but they were saying that Google paid an astronomical amount of money to come loaded as the computer research engine. I can’t remember if it was Apple or Microsoft; I think it was Apple, but don’t quote me. They were paying this ridiculous amount of money to come loaded.

Oh, preloaded.

Yes, preloaded, because that makes a difference. But the big question is, if they weren’t preloaded, I think there are still some people that some weren’t preloaded and would still back people putting Google on there. So from insights, is it their fault, or are we so used to Google why they are still dominant?

They were first on the market, and they created such an amazing tool and invested so much research and development into it.

They weren’t the first.

No, they weren’t. Thank you for correcting me. Search engines before them had gone the way of the Dodo. I can’t remember their names right now. I am thinking about Excite or whatever it was.

I think what did it for them was AdWords, where they made a ton of money, reinvested it, and focused on it. I think it’s hard to see them going away as the dominant force for at least the next five years. Who knows in the future what might happen?

Who knows?

But for now, we still focus on Google first. We are still on it.

What about link building? Do you think link building is still valid and will be for the future?

It’s a valid tactic today. I mean, you have to have links. Links are so important. Link building is weird because if you are an SEO gaining links and want to succeed as an SEO, it’s hard to get natural, good organic links. There are other sources where people have created huge networks that sell links, which they are not supposed to do. In our business, we are very open. We share everything with our clients. We are very transparent. We will present the options like you can do this, but it is up to you. Because doing that will make this hard if it’s a long time. I’m not a component of doing things illegal or shady, but also, Google has created a game, and you have to play the game. So it’s a very tough environment. You have to have links, and links matter. The right links matter.

And that’s what made Google start their whole way of identifying if something was of value to the market or not. The more votes regarding the links it had, the more popular it could have been. People gained that, and Google just wants to go over what those gaming tricks are, like over-optimization. We don’t need to get into it because our audience understands what I am talking about. But I just don’t see how that is going to change. It still has to remain a factor in whether something is popular or not or relevant.

Yes, and it is surprising when Google spends a lot of time thinking about it. Because there are say, whenever links are out there, build up a supply of links. And you wonder if complaining to Google will identify links, and suddenly those will get flagged. In other words, if you know that some links are bad, and my advice is if you follow the sound rules, which is doing organic SEO, even though it takes longer and is harder, it will not go away. We have seen in a period earlier on that the more links you had, the better. Well, maybe everyone has seen the spam links, and people don’t like some of that stuff. There have been numerous accounts of things like that. If you are not getting true organic links, my advice is to buy some links.

I agree with you. Hey, James, is there anything else? Is there one big takeaway you would like people to take away from this episode?

I talk about this, just in marketing; I agree we are a Marketing company, and we love SEO. I typically search first because I still feel like nothing is out there. You can tell where a customer is in the sales funnel using keywords. They identify people based on their search ranks. There is nothing as powerful as that. So the search is super powerful, but we may just market in general. We have done a lot of search intent displays. We have retargeted connected TV. Streaming audio, you have Youtube. Love sales funnel and automation, and there is much you can do. I always tell people that people may think marketing is something you get up and do and turn on, and you do, and just right through the gate. We sell the major results. You have a smart team working with you, and if you are trying things, analyzing the data properly and continuing to work on it, you will succeed. You just have to put in the time and the effort.

You have to put in the depth. I agree with you. I had what you call an egregious pull lever. I had that challenge at the car dealership as the Marketing Director. They thought I should just be able to pull a lever, and the leads would come on. Even sending traffic to empty pages with no pictures, videos of the cars, and no description for the cars. And no videos for the cars. When we started doing those things, the leads started to convert. It takes time investment of time and expertise to get there eventually. One of the things you touched on in this is, developing the customer persona. So that you know what your customers are searching for to be able to target them with the right answers and solutions to their problems. So thankful.

Identifying the personas first. Speaking to your audience, knowing their pain points, addressing them. Marketing 101 has never changed, just some of the ways of it. I don’t think it will go either.

Even though technology and all these other things change, that will never change. It’s the foundation, the gospel, if you will, of Marketing. Hey James, how can our audience connect with you online if they want to?

They can hit me on our website,clickandcreate.us. I’m on Facebook. I’m on LinkedIn as well. I’ll be honest, this is crazy, but I’m at work for so many hours in the office that I disconnect when I leave the office. I spend time with my family and love the things we talk about, but I am not on social as many people are because I am so engaged here. I am on technology all day long, so you know what it is once I leave.

I haven’t installed all the social media apps on my phone. I am too busy. So I know how it is.

Yes. It can be a big distraction. I get on sometimes, and I partake. I don’t do it every day, all day long. I see so many people get sucked in and thought you could handle it, right? I have kids twelve and thirteen who are getting into that world. And it’s like here we go.

I think it’s a partnership; you limit yourself thirty minutes daily, if that. I worked in twenty-five or fifteen minutes increments. I take a ten-minute break if I work for fifteen minutes and if I go for ten minutes and go on Facebook, then fine. It’s just ten minutes that I need to take a break and maybe wish somebody a happy birthday or whatever the case may be. But certainly, I will not spend two hours scrolling through the newsfeed. I have way more productive things to do than that.

You need to fill in the breaks. I don’t want to take away from your ten minutes.

That’s all good. I want to thank you for being and agreeing to come to the show. It’s been a pleasure having you.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I enjoyed it.

You have a great day.

You too.